Re-design, from the code up!

This site is a collective mess, I’m actively doing something about that. Things may get a little bumpy, as always, I welcome comments and criticisms.

20 thoughts on “Re-design, from the code up!”

  1. You should post JPEGs of what the page looks like to you. It doesn’t look very good to me in Opera 5.11 (probably the most standards compliant browser out there) or IE5 (has problems with its box model). It occurs to me that the claim of looking much better in a standards-compliant browser is pretty outrageous. 🙂

  2. Interesting, you should only see the “looking much better in a standards-compliant browser” comment if your using a browser that doesn’t support style sheets… The problem that there isn’t a single browser that truly and completely supports the standards is also a problem, but I’m working on the idea that we’ll get there one day and then suddenly the web will shine.

  3. I am using a browser that supports 100% CSS1 as far as I know, more than anyone else, just. The CTO of the company is the co-author of the CSS1&2 specs. You’ll note that conformant UA’s may ignore the display property. But anyway, I can’t see it today, and all looks right. If I turn off styling, it more or less looks like it did yesterday. Did you tweak something? Incidentally, it’s probably awfully rude for me to write IE5 here, assuming IE5/Win.

  4. Oh yes, I forgot: beware. The CSS1 spec has errors and some of it is problematical. The CSS2 spec conflicts with it in some ways and has its own errors and questionable decisions. Don’t get me started on some other specs… It is not always easy to predict what something will do. People posting complaints to browser lists about CSS support more often than not have a mistake in their code. In any case, CSS will not solve world hunger or fix up non-sparkly webpages. Some of the ugliest pages I’ve ever seen were fully standards-compliant.

  5. Actually I was making all sorts of changes to the structure & layout at about the time that you made your comment on Monday night (ah, just noticed the US date format… something to fix later), so if you were using a cached CSS page then things would have gone out the window. Just a a side note, I do usually use Opera to check that things look close to okay. I personally like the idea of separating structure and layout into two different things and using HTML for structure only. When I get around to it I will actually be adding separate CSS files for different browser types (bottom of the list, but one day). As for standards, nothing is prefect, but if we don’t try then what’s the point? And yes, simply following the standards is not going to stop the ugly-as-sin pages from being written.

  6. Actually, what is the point? (The separation of content and presentation is semi-bogus as presentation carries semantic weight, etc.)

  7. The point is to communicate (even if what you want to communicate is that you don’t want to communicate). It is the message that is important, not how it is presented. Yes, presentation can help, but if the message itself is lacking then even the best advertising company isn’t going to be able to do much. If the ‘speaker’ has to worry about the presentation then that detracts from the effort that goes into ensuring the message has the intended meaning. A writer is little concerned with the typesetting that will be used when his story is finally printed (well, not while he is writing it anyway). Yet if we let web browsers render as default the result is a mess that makes the designer in all of us shudder. We find ourselves in the curious position of being author, editor and designer. It is hard enough doing just one of these jobs well, we might as well take advantage of trick that can ease the jobs. So if while writing all that needs to be considered is the structural purpose of each element, (in html done with tags like h1, del, abbr, br, cite, tt, ol and others). Then the designer can worry about how to present all of these various different elements in a way that best enhances the desired message. Well, that’s about how I’m seeing it at the moment at least.

  8. This is why my page is plain. I’ve received numerous compliments about that. Well, comparatively numerous. I’ll stop pestering you now, I don’t think I’m being helpful any more.

  9. I actually like the design of your blog a lot, it is true that it is a simple design, but simple is never a bad thing from a design point of view. Some of the biggest problems when designing a layout is making things simpler. I don’t mind your pestering, makes it look like someone actually read the crap I post here.

  10. I just enjoy reading the banter between you guys. And the funny stuff about roller skating.

  11. Banter??? Yes I suppose it is. Feel free to weigh-in (is that the right phrase?) any time Alan. Or perhaps you’d rather not hear what either one of us has to say on the subject of frames…

  12. Oh, I hate frames. With a passion. I also hate tables, for much the same reason. And javascript. And style sheets. And everything that is designed to distract from the content. But they sing to me… they seduce me. And so I make extensive use of frames, styles, javascript and server-side includes on my site. But I try to ensure that the content remains central, and the ‘design’ aspect serves to make that content more accessible, while still feeding my urge to design and redesign. As an aside, at the last count, I was pushing 1000 pages of content on my site - but I only need to update a few dozen files to completely change the look of the site. In terms of ‘style vs content’, the content has settled down, but I’m still inching nervously towards a long-term style.

  13. Alan, I actually think that your site makes the best use of frames I’ve seen in a long, long time, perhaps even ever. And I’ll be adding a few server-side includes just as soon as I figure out how my ISP prefers them to be done. Good thing about the net, there is always a new toy to play with.

  17. The bug is for IE5/Win too. I’d also suspect IE4/Win, since they’re all the same codebase. There you go, that’s most of the world’s browser population for you. But how many people who visit this site use these browsers normally?

  18. I have been aware of this display bug for awhile now, it is to do with an attempt to make the flash object comply with XHTML 1 Strict (no embed tag). Still messing around with it. As for browser breakdown, IE accounts for more that 60% of my viewers, so I really should do something about it. For more detailed breakdown have a look at my tracking stats: http://cgi.zipworld.com.au/navaz/axs/ax-admin.pl

  20. Well I’ve fixed that layout glitch (as long as fixed means “removed the thing that was causing the problem”).

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